"Nepal is now seen and heard"

12 July 2019

Pic: BIKRAM RAI

When Nepal’s politicians were asked to list their assets, many disclosed property, bank balances and jewelry. Among his possessions, Nepal’s well-read Foreign Minister Pradeep Gyawali declared that he owned 2,500 books. The soft-spoken Gyawali now has the responsibility of steering the country’s foreign policy at a time of heightened geopolitical polarisation in the region. Sound bites from an interview this week:

Nepal used to be a back-bencher in international fora. Now we are being seen and heard. The Prime Minister’s participation at Davos and hosting the BIMSTEC Summit in Kathmandu has raised Nepal’s international profile.

It could be that some cannot digest Nepal’s higher international engagement and are uneasy about it. But there is no question of Nepal ever joining any strategic alliance.

We look at our own national interest, and we also try to make sure that our decisions and involvement do not hurt the interests of our neighbours, development partners or other friendly countries.

Our long-term foreign policy goals have not changed, but we are trying to adapt to new geopolitical realities by analysing them and formulating new policies of engagement.

We want to benefit from the economic growth and development of our two neighbours.

We are conveying to China and India that a prosperous and stable Nepal is also in their interest.

We are telling our development partners that Nepal is a safe country for foreign investment, from where it is easy to export to other countries.

We are very sensitive to the fact that 4 million of our young men and women are working abroad and through diplomacy we want to ensure their security, rights and respect.

In the 1990s and 2000s many Latin American countries went nearly bankrupt and had to be bailed out. It was not called a ‘debt trap’, none of them had loans from China.

If it is in the national interest, we can take not just aid, but also loans. But if it is against our interest, we will not even take assistance.

The suspicions about the Indo-Pacific is a storm in a tea cup. Our Chinese friends are not really worried, they are sure that Nepal will not allow anti-Chinese activities.

We do not lean more or less on any one side. We don’t try to compare the relationship we have with our two neighbours.

"Nepal has spread its wings"

Full Interview with Minister of Foreign Affairs Pradeep Gyawali

Nepali Times: There have been transformative changes in international diplomacy and geopolitics. But Nepal seems to be stuck.

Pradeep Gyawali: Every country has a set of long-term goals, and some flexible policies that change with the times. Nation states have permanent values like sovereignty, territorial integrity, dignity and independence. These beliefs do not change with changes in governments, they do not even change with a change in governance systems. Our adherence to the concept of panchashila, or the United Nations declaration does not change. That is why we also look into our fixed goals and immediate policies based on changes in international and regional relations. We have adapted to new realities from the standpoint of our national interest.

Will this be enough for Nepal to reach its goal of being a middle-income country in the next ten years?

We have to keep in mind global changes, and specifically the geopolitical, economic, demographic changes in Asia. We have to adapt to the fact that our two neighbours are moving forward rapidly. For this, we do not play favourites, or let our relations with one country be at the expense of another. We want to benefit from the economic growth and development of our two neighbours. We are conveying to China and India that a prosperous and stable Nepal is also in their interest. We are telling our development partners that Nepal is a safe country for foreign investment, from where it is easy to export to other countries. We are very sensitive to the fact that 4 million of our young men and women are working abroad and through diplomacy, we want to ensure their security, rights and dignity. And we will extend our involvement and cooperation with multilateral agencies.

The Indian media and intelligentsia are accusing Nepal of tilting towards China.

Both our neighbours are equally important for us. We are not tilting more or less in any direction. We don’t compare our relationship with either of them. Neither of our neighbours should forget that Nepal has neighbours on both sides, and ask us to deal only with one of them.

There is lot of talk about Nepal falling into the Chinese debt trap.

I keep reminding people that in the 1990s and 2000s many Latin American countries nearly went bankrupt and had to be bailed out. It was not called a ‘debt trap’, none of them had loans from China. Greece still has not been able to come out of its economic crisis, and I don’t think they are in trouble because they had Chinese investments. These accusations are not based on an objective economic analysis, but a negative attitude towards the rise of China and its political system. Besides, Nepal has the ability to decide what is in its national interest and what is not. If it is in the national interest we can take not just aid, but also loans. But if it is not in our interest, we will not even take assistance.

And China seems to be suspicious of Nepal’s involvement in the Indo-Pacific Alliance. Can a Nepal that is already a member of the BRI risk being involved in the Indo-Pacific?

The suspicions about the Indo-Pacific is a storm in a tea cup. Our Chinese friends are not really worried, they are sure that Nepal will not allow anti-Chinese activities. The first official visit by a Nepali foreign minister to Washington recently, and the first American visit at the level of the foreign minister to Nepal have added a new milestone to Nepal-US relations. The Japanese foreign minister visited Nepal after many years, we have also deepened our relations with India, the EU and other development partners. Nepal has increased its involvement in the international arena. The Prime Minister’s recent Europe visit has sent the message that Nepal is no longer what it used to be in South Asia, it has spread its wings. It could be that some cannot digest Nepal’s higher international engagement and are uneasy about it. There is no question of Nepal ever joining any strategic alliance. We look at our own national interest, and we also try to make sure that our decisions and involvement does not hurt the interests of our neighbours, development partners or other friendly countries.

What are the main achievements during your tenure?

During the conflict, Nepal’s economic development suffered a setback, it affected our foreign policy and we became an arena for proxies. Now, with the end of the political transition and political stability, we are fixing our mistakes and moving ahead. Nepal used to be a back-bencher in the international fora. Now, we are being seen and heard. The Prime Minister’s participation at Davos, his one-on-one meeting with G-20 leaders sent the message that Nepal should now be heard on the world stage. Recently, the head of the IFC said that Nepal was a ‘rising star’, so that must carry some weight.

We have also restored our relations with our neighbours, after overcoming difficult times. Others have now realised that they must take Nepal along. Despite obstacles, we hosted the BIMSTEC Summit and the Colombo Process Ministerial Conference in Kathmandu. I would consider the past year quite successful.

Interview by Hari Prakash Chand and Binu Pokhrel

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